Shawn Taylor is a professor, consultant, and coach. But more than that, he’s fascinated by narriative, how it shapes culture, and how it can bring us together. He’s been published in NY Times, Fusion, and Ebony. He’s the founder of, and Senior Fellow at Pop Culture Collaborative.

In short, Shawn is a pretty amazing dude. I encourage you to read more about Shawn and go follow him on Twitter.

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Brian Crawford 0:02
Welcome to the Create Good podcast. I’m Brian, and I’m Dawn. And we’ve spent the last decade plus working with passionate communicators activist and do gooders around the country. We also host a conference called Create Good, where we gather folks to share their work, and create a community for people trying to make the world a better place.

Dawn Crawford 0:25
The Create Good podcast is a conversation with changemakers and rabble rousers to find out what makes them tick, and how they create good. Let’s get started.

Brian Crawford 0:37
I am so excited to have Shawn on the podcast today. He’s truly one of the most interesting, most brilliant people I think I’ve ever met. And I’m excited to talk to him again today. So thanks for coming on, Shawn. Let’s start with this. Tell everyone a little bit more about yourself.

Shawn Taylor 0:57
Let’s see. I’m Sean Demetrius Arturo Alvarez Taylor. I have a long history in adolescent mental health and juvenile justice work. And while I was doing that, for 20 plus years, I was also a bouncer. Because I absolutely love nightlife as besides the alcohol and the violence, but I love music. I love the club life. I love people dancing and feeling as if they’ve have a community. I moved from that type of work to education. I’ve, I’ve been a university lecturer at SF State since 2008, I guess, a folklorist by training. And I see everything is folklore. I think my biggest claim to fame was arguing with people that hip hop wasn’t a subculture, but that it was actually black Latinx folklore, and people got mad. But now everyone’s coming around to that point of view. And I was doing that as it sounds like a hipster. I was doing that 20 years ago, when I was. And my goal now is, is really figure out how to use narrative and story and storytelling tips and practices to bring us all together to make us because literally, we are only as good as our relationships. And that’s my goal is to is to bring us together with really good story.

Brian Crawford 2:07
What did you say your your new title you’re working on? Would you call it? It’s

Shawn Taylor 2:11
like it sounds so absolutely pertinent, pretentious. But I think like narrative engineer, story, engineer, story architect, something like that, because it’s really about not telling fanciful tales. But how do I get the most authentic story from people and their situations and contexts to create something that they can see themselves in? Like, oh, we were dope. Like, that’s my goal I want everyone is filled out.

Brian Crawford 2:35
We’re structured this little bit around nonprofits. So I’m not sure if this would apply directly to your work. Or maybe you want to talk about the work you’ve done around education. But you know why, in that sort of space,

Shawn Taylor 2:48
I think nonprofits are horrible storytellers. And I think they don’t do a really good job of really getting because nobody cares what you do. They care about what effect you can have on them. And I think that we’re all as we serve this population, this, but what are you doing for them. And so a lot of my consultation work is really going in to nonprofits, and having them restructure their their outward facing story, your inward facing story, find, let’s get into the nuts and nuts and bolts as given the nitty gritty, but your outward facing story has to be simple. It has to be direct. And most of all, it has to be I hate the word authentic, because it doesn’t do everything we want it to do all the time. But it has to be something that people go oh, so if I engage with them, I will be transformed in the way that I want to be transformed. As opposed to, I don’t want to be a demographic that they serve because it feels real pathologizing. And so I think nonprofits can do a better job of a marshaling and braiding resources. You don’t need 45 spoken word, nonprofits you should have, she should combine your forces and reach the most amount of people possible. And I think that you also have to figure out how to tell him the fact of story in a way that motivates your employees, and also motivates the public to actually want to work with

Brian Crawford 4:00
you thinking about this, like nonprofits specifically for that work, kind of what does that do for you as thinking like, there’s no shortage of companies, corporates, in particular looking, you know, trying to harness their story for profits? What is it about maybe the nonprofit cause

Shawn Taylor 4:19
its values, like, I think, because I have certain values is why I’m not ultra wealthy. It’s because when you have when you want to help, you don’t make much money. Which is, which is weird. But you know, I’ve taken on a couple of corporate clients that shared values or I had to hold them to account for the values and like, if you don’t rock with this, I can’t walk with you. Because I just there’s a world I want to live in. There’s a rule I want to create for my daughter. That is really about equity and parity. And I think a lot of mountain property on there is a nonprofit industrial complex that our poverty pimps and prey on the people they’re supposed to serve. There’s a lot of that out there. And I’ve worked for a couple of them with unwittingly when I was like oh, This is what we’re doing time to go. But I think that what the nonprofit space does, it really allows you to sit with your values and gut check your values every so often, where if you’re in a corporate space, you’re just trying to serve the entity. Whereas with the nonprofit space, you’re serving the mission. And sometimes the mission has to be agile enough to be able to change to whatever’s coming up the change. And I think that that’s what I liked. I liked the idea of having the gut check myself.

Brian Crawford 5:27
Yeah. So of all the work you’ve done, what’s your favorite thing about what you get to do?

Shawn Taylor 5:34
I get to make people see how dope they are. Like that is literally like the highlight because, um, you know, I’m doing a series of online courses now for parents with quiet children and how to best support quiet children. And I’m reading an e book that goes along with the course. And I’ve been doing a lot of like parent work lately, like schools will call me like, hey, we have these pets or customers or because of this. And it’s like how to best support your kid and and parents like, oh, wait a minute, I know how to do this stuff you see, like this. And you’re like, they like they light up. And you’re like, that’s what I’m talking about. Like, that’s what I’m talking about. It’s about you understanding that you are open that you’re not nearly as helpless as, as society is trying to make you out to be in. So I love to see people. And I’d love to see when organizations go, Hey, this mission statement no longer serves us. What’s our new one? And that to me, I love that that’s literally the reason I did the work because like, I want to, I want people to see how dope Yeah, because I know I’m dope. There’s no doubt in my mind. I mean, it’s not arrogance is that I think that when you are fully aligned, your values are aligned, your interests are aligned. There’s something that is liberating and super propulsive about that. And I just, that’s, I feel like I’m no,

Brian Crawford 6:43
that’s awesome. Sounds like you love everything, mostly.

Shawn Taylor 6:52
Sometimes it can get kinda kind of challenging.

Brian Crawford 6:54
There’s Yeah. So what would you change? If you had kind of a magic wand, you can wave it around and change one thing about your work life, what

Shawn Taylor 7:03
would it be, I probably would have invested more money. So I could literally because I would love to have a center. So people can come and train and connect with each other. Like, that’s what I probably would have done. But I also think I would have, in hindsight, I would have got on this road quicker. Because I started out, I moved from the East Coast to the West Coast to get into tech, and I worked in tech, and it was the most disheartening, soul destroying thing I’ve ever felt in my life. And I just did it for a while. And I was just like, why am I here? Because the money was so good. Yeah, again, I had this realization that I don’t need a lot. And money can be I can always get money. Yeah, to make the basics. I don’t have to be like, swimming like Scrooge McDuck in that like, golden swimming pool, you know. But what I can do is stay true to my values and and, and being true to my values has allowed me to travel and do things that I wish I would have discovered this calling earlier. I think I probably did have that calling. But coming from a super poverty background. I chose security over my heart. And I think I’m now at this advanced age. I’m understanding like to get back to the hard work, that hard work is security.

Brian Crawford 8:18
Yes, it is. It’s yeah, it’s like payment for the soul. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that’s funny when we did this as the same question of, you know, the same answer of, you know, basically what I wanted to do in the future. And it’s like, I really want a space. You know, and it’s not necessarily an office space for us, but like a gathering spot. Like thing for community. Yeah,

Shawn Taylor 8:45
I’ll tell you my number one goal, like number one thing I wish I could do, is I want a cafe that has no Wi Fi that you played dominoes and you talk shit all day like that’s it like you play dominoes. You play spades, you play backgammon. You talk to people of different races, different cultures. I’d have ASL interpreters on site. I’d have language coordinate that’s literally my goal. Like I’m looking at my 401k like but I wanted to I won’t live long enough to spend this or do I just want to cash everything out and try this now. Like that’s I mean yeah, but then you got to then you’re like, the new COVID reality you’re like well maybe not. I’m really the best idea right now.

Brian Crawford 9:26
open a cafe called like 1993 And it’s all just right there all that era.

Shawn Taylor 9:36
gonna happen I will make that happen. That’s literally on my on my list of just this.

Brian Crawford 9:41
When it opens, give me a call. I will fly across the country. You know, I don’t know anything about Domino’s. But I will learn to come.

Shawn Taylor 9:51
Yeah, I’m Puerto Rican in Jamaican. I mean, I was born with Domino’s in my head.

Brian Crawford 9:57
So looking forward, what are you looking forward to and then next year,

Shawn Taylor 10:01
getting this eBook out for parents and getting these this first course up, I’m looking forward to I’m going to create a change retreat at the Sundance Resort in July, to be a mentor to some folks. And I am going to be presenting at the International Festival of Arts and Culture in Connecticut, the month before that, and so I’m looking forward to that. And just writing some more, I think I tend to really write a lot. I’m retiring from teaching this after the semester, since 2008. I won’t be teaching in the fall, which is a weird adjustment. But there’s just things that there’s so many projects, how many get done, and I have a daughter who turns 14 In two weeks, and when he was like, finally finding what she’s about, she’s a musical theater kid. And I want to be around for that as well.

Brian Crawford 10:52
Yeah, that’s great. Yeah. I know, I’ve had that same thought, look into the future for myself on my, you know, in the kids needs more hands on guidance, even more than now. And like, you know, can I take her show her experiences?

Shawn Taylor 11:07
And that’s what it’s about. It’s about what can I show you that will enhance your life? Yeah, in a way that you’re gonna be able to know, like, Oh, my dad did this, like, you know, because it’s just really important for my for me, because, like, you know, how it is, you know, you have kids, you, um, the wrestle giggle parent? Well, my, well, my wife is the I have an existential crisis parent. I’m becoming that more. I’m like, we’re back. Now, at this age. She’s almost 14. You know, we’re talking about crushes. We’re talking about all these things that are making me stress. But she’s trusting me with it enough that I had to be on I have to be on again. Gotta be ready. Yeah. You have to be compassionate and empathic, and you can’t shut them down. They’re being honest with you.

Brian Crawford 11:52
That’s true. Yeah, I feel like again, I get one or two shots at that. And then

Shawn Taylor 11:55
you’re Oh, because if you shut it down, you’re done. You’re gonna get the TV and the other parts of the culture we’re raising you raising before you?

Brian Crawford 12:02
Yeah. All right. So you’ve done a lot like I was saying earlier, like reading your bio, and everything you’ve just been into, like you’ve done so much. What do you feel like you still need to do like, what do you feel like you still need to achieve? Besides the coffee shop? Of course.

Shawn Taylor 12:25
Yeah. I mean, that’s definitely not I mean, within the next five years, for sure, if the Republicans don’t kill us, that’s going to happen within the next five years. I think I’m really I don’t want to get a novel out. I have a novel that I’ve been toying with for a long time. Yeah, I’m a huge sci fi fantasy head. But I have this great novel that set in the music world, but it’s all sci fi. And so I’m looking forward to let’s say, All About nightclubs and nightlife. So I want to get that out. I want to do some more training of people. I love working with people. And I would like to I don’t know, I mean, I think I just I’ve been lucky. I’ve been really coming from, you know, a super abusive household. Super poverty grew up in the Walt Whitman houses in Brooklyn. Like I grew up, awful, then I’m looking at houses now, you know, looking at like the the degrees that have been about to be married for 20 years coming up. And it’s just like, life is really good right now. And I think I’ve done but I think like, the greatest thing I really want to do is have some type of training institute for people and storytelling and story braiding. So we can start making cross cultural connections in a way that Matt has mattered that’s meaningful. Like, that’s kind of like the thing I really like to do.

Brian Crawford 13:37
In So now, as you know, joining the ranks of the elders even though that feels too soon, yeah. Yeah, the kids coming up behind us. Yeah. You know, what advice do you have for someone starting their career may be interested in story or in, you know, even you know, education or the nonprofit space? What? What kind of advice do you have for that?

Shawn Taylor 14:02
Wow, advice is always a tricky thing for me. But I would say like, my suggestion would be never compromise your values. Because once you move that goalposts, that golf course is going to be forever movable. I’m not saying be inflexible to the point where you can’t see I’m not saying having a fixed mindset, right, I’m not saying that you shouldn’t be able to, to, to be amenable to new information that is valuable. But if you are, if you took a firm stance of sobriety, but you drink socially, you’re gonna start slipping. And I think that it’s something like you have to have as like, for me, like, I will never like, My wife hates this, but like, if I see an injustice, I’m always gonna step it always whether it’s verbally, whether it’s physically, I’m always in that stumbling block up and I see people mistreating people. You know, I’m not gonna work for a place that does that. And so many people who work for this place where they treat their employees well, they treat the cleaning staff like trash, and people are still at Place working and I would never, I would never do, I would have to leave, or I would have to raise them up hell, they’ve never sold me off premises.

Brian Crawford 15:08
And our agency Dawn’s the client services person, but I’m the I’m the person who kind of brings the hammer and ends relationships if we have to. And I’m definitely the one like Dawn’s trying to make stuff work. And I’m the one when I hear things, or if I see an email of how they’re talking to someone here and I’m like, nope, not, it’s not gonna happen. So you really got to change the tone, or we done.

Shawn Taylor 15:35
Done? You know, and I know, I know, I’ve missed out. And this is how much of a torturous idiot I am. I’m such a masochist, that I like counting the money that I have lost by sticking to my values. And it’s over a million dollars and I’ll be perfectly transparent with you it’s overtake a mill to

Brian Crawford 15:52
Oh, man, it’s like it’s like a shadow 401 K just hanging out there. Never gonna be cashed in.

Shawn Taylor 15:59
It’s a shadow middle finger of dollar signs. me that I’m that my values are stupid, because it made me broke. But I wouldn’t change anything like said, I mean, I got offered to write a movie that would have you done fairly well. And I do. And I saw how Black folks are depicted as like, Absolutely not, let’s I can make changes and they’re like, nope, nevermind. Do you know how much money this is. This is absolutely I can count. But no, I’m not going to because I just think that we there’s not enough conviction. I think conviction has become too valuable for a lot of people. I’m not saying you want to be like, you know, Greensboro with your church, or whatever. Those people are like being all like, no, but it’s not about being inflexible, but it’s like, but it’s about being able to hold a code.

Brian Crawford 16:44
Yeah. And it’s, I think, what’s interesting about it is, if you if you walk around, you kind of truly believe, you know, that most people are good. You know, they have a good heart in general that when you encounter it, it’s like, you have two choices, right? You can either correct it or kind of look the other way. Right? There’s not really a third option.

Shawn Taylor 17:06
Yeah. And I know for a fact, I’m putting myself in danger. And life has reminded me of that, more often than not. Yeah, I mean, I have a good mouthpiece, and I didn’t take martial arts for 40 years for no reason. Yeah. You know, not to, I’m not a tough guy at all. I’m literally like, Can we get some skittles in watching? Like, I’m not? I’m not. But I will. I can’t stand people. I hate bullies. I hate them.

Brian Crawford 17:29
Yeah. All right, I’m gonna get us back on track, we diverge a little bit. We’re gonna talk a little bit about feedback. This is definitely one that Don is very interested in. She’s writing a book about it. And she’s, you know, because over the last 11 years, we’ve had over 100 nonprofits and so she’s had a lot of feedback from different people. And she’s seen this sort of, like, different types of feedback and how people processing do weird shit with it. So. So for you, how do you personally process criticism and feedback on your work?

Shawn Taylor 18:10
I consider the source. First, like if it’s somebody who I don’t really care about, but the thing is, I don’t ask all the big guy who’ll give you the best feedback on my life. I was just like, I hate this guy’s guts. But he was so right. I’m like, No, I think it’s really about just getting your ego out of the way. There’s a Dallas, classical way, like kind of getting out of your way. And that that you have to do because I think most feedback, most people don’t have to give feedback. They just don’t know how. But most feedback is valuable, right? Even though it may hurt. And it may sting because it’s delivered in an ugly way. But you have to move through your initial ego reaction to go Oh, damn.

Brian Crawford 18:50
Yeah, you’re right.

Shawn Taylor 18:53
Like, I remember, like, you know, having my daughter give me feedback. You don’t read to me enough. And I was just like, oh, no, she said it was that’s not her face. And I was like, and I’m thinking I’m doing I think I’m gonna be happy. I’m reading every night. I think I’m doing the best stuff. But then I’m like, I realized, Oh, I read her twice a week, when she was little. And that’s it. And I’m thinking I’m in a Mac, I’m a guy. So I’m magnifying my greatness in my head. For so often, but it’s really like the source and and what is the feedback? Like? Is it from your ego? Or is it really about whatever’s at hand is about like, is it just like, you feel uncomfortable? So you think you have to do something even though it’s not, I need to be back into your issue? Or is it my issue? Like those are the things that really consider like, I think a lot of people give feedback because they feel frustrated with themselves. And so they want to offload that frustration and personalize it to someone else. Whereas they should like, focus on their own stuff and then create a coherent, coherent word for you to understand. But yeah, I mean, like, it’s really just for me. Like, is it useful? Bruce Lee said write, absorb was useful rejected was useless and add what’s your own? And that’s my thing. That’s how he got feedback. Like, I’ll take some things, but certain things are not gonna change. Yeah, but certain things, thank you. I didn’t even know that I needed to actually change that. And I think it’s really, you know, delivery, I don’t really care so much, have a thick skin. But if it’s from somebody who has zero expertise, in an area, give me feedback on my area that I’m an expert. And I think the reason we’re experts that I’m well versed in them is not going to happen. But if you’re really holding me accountable, because I think the better these two things, you should hold you accountable and should give you a way to get better. But doesn’t if it doesn’t include those two things. I really don’t listen to it.

Brian Crawford 20:41
Yeah, so what? So what kind of feedback style doesn’t work for you, but can kind of

Shawn Taylor 20:47
passive aggressive? 94% of all nonprofit employees. Passive aggressive, just tell me, just don’t try to couch it in something else. Just be like, hey, in the meeting when you did this, let’s have a conversation about it. Okay, as opposed to, well, you know, if some people do that, like no, be as direct with me as possible. That will give in, give me the feedback as soon as possible, as close to the event. Don’t wait for weeks. Remember, for Thursday’s ago, I’m not going to listen to you. Because people, some people would argue that some people need time to gather their thoughts, facts, but I shouldn’t be dragged back in time because you aren’t ready. And so if you can give me the feedback, as soon as possible that we can come to a consensus, we have to come to agreement, or we can come to a consensus, I

Brian Crawford 21:43
think it’s your best, maybe most productive I’m trying to take out a word this but maybe Yeah, most productive, I think because like relationship, you know, feedback relationship. What did that look like? How did that work out?

Shawn Taylor 21:56
It was the director. Oh, actually, at the time, he was the assistant director of juvenile juvenile probation at San Francisco, of San Francisco County. I got we got an apartment the same time he was like, we’re not going in until you have this out. And I was like, Okay. And he just really told me he was like, We love what you do. We love this. But sometimes I think he belittle our guards, in a way, because they’re coming from a protection standpoint, you’re coming from a mental health standpoint. But I think you belittle our guards in the way that they don’t want you to come here anymore, because they feel like you think you’re better than them. And I was like, Oh, me advocating for a client turns into me being an opposition to the guard. And so I had to go in their hat in hand. When I walked into this building, and I formally apologized in front of everybody. I said, I’m never going to stop advocating for children. But I will stop sounding like an entitled Dick when I’m in here, because I apologize for that. Like, I didn’t realize that was the case, I wish I would have came to me directly. I apologize in the future, you have my permission to check me in the moment even in front of the client. So they know that adults are being responsible. And then then, you know, the director of operations like two weeks later who say, that was a brave thing you did. You know, he’s like now but then ever since then, all my relationships are super clean with everybody. There was no shot and I’ll come in and like that was it was great after that. But yeah, it took some humility to go in there. And I was wrong. Yeah. But it felt good because he held me accountable for my actions.

Brian Crawford 23:24
Yeah. So what was your role as a consultant there?

Shawn Taylor 23:28
No, I was actually a, I was working on helping juvenile juvenile detainees stepped down from juvenile hall, into their homes. Okay, into a wraparound service. Interesting.

Brian Crawford 23:42
Yes, I guess there is a little bit of a, like an adversarial setup to the game a little bit.

Shawn Taylor 23:50
So basically, the people in juvenile justice thought that the people in mental health are soft. We didn’t understand crime that I’m like, Hey, guys, like to see the bullet hole in my side when I got shot as a kid. Yeah, how about that, but we understand that but the reality is, I don’t see them as lost and the juvenile guards see them as lost. But you’ll see us be back here in two weeks anyway. But I’m like, I can’t think like that. I have to be a hope monger. I have to hope that the individuals that we put into place, support this person and their family to the point where they’re not recidivating.

Brian Crawford 24:18
Well, let’s move on to our last few questions. First one’s about burnout. So as someone is kind of, I would say, as prolific as you, how do you avoid, avoid burnout.

Shawn Taylor 24:34
It’s why I do so many different things. Because I just think for me, burnout is really like, I’m not the most talented guy in the world. But you’re not gonna outwork me ever. Like I’ll outwork anybody, and that’s a problem and I know that is a trauma response to a lot of things. And but for me, avoid burnout is really finding the time making the time carving the time out to do things that I did. Like last night, my daughter is in rehearsals for a play. So she was gone all last night, I sat on the couch we read, which I haven’t done for three years. Like, just like, I’ll catch like a couple chapters here and there. But usually I’m waiting to write something. Right? It’s like references I read a book. On last night, I was like, what kind of alternative universe is this? And I think for me, it’s really just about recognizing the signs of burnout, because some people don’t recognize the science because we have this horrible self care industry. It’s all about distraction, not about integrating it into a functional part of your life. And my wife, who actually has an entire course, on racial battle fatigue, and battling burnout for people who cover in higher ed and in business, like her course, is phenomenal for him and stealing a lot of tips and tricks from her like, so you do what? Wait a minute, I can do that. You know, and it’s understanding what my boundaries are. And you know what my limits are? Because, you know, I think so many of us, especially black folks, we have been taught and conditioned to work through pain. Because you have bills to pay, or you have this to do. And then it’s like, what happens when you have nothing left?

Brian Crawford 26:15
Yeah. Like, where’s your downtime come.

Shawn Taylor 26:19
And I want to tell everybody, a nonprofit right now, sometimes they’ll clear squinting. And I want you to be honest about that. And I get those bills and car notes of gases at 5000 miles a gallon, whatever it is, I understand that. But sometimes self care is to leave the situation that has negatively impacted you. And I think now enough people think that leaving is an option. But yeah, you can leave.

Brian Crawford 26:42
I think I think that’s great to hear. I know sometimes the worst thing you do is just hold on to the bitter end. But why? And how why work

Shawn Taylor 26:51
yourself to your bones are ripping off your your your flesh and ripping off your bones, your muscles are fatigued and your brain is mushed out like you can leave. I’m not saying leaving to put yourself in situation where you’re like, you know, going to be homeless. But what I’m saying is like, set it up to leave, because they’re gonna replace you in two weeks anyway, like you really owe no one anything unless it’s your operation. And so prioritize yourself.

Brian Crawford 27:16
This is more a big picture question here. The work you do around especially around narrative like, what? What keeps you engaged? What keeps you coming back to doing that work every day?

Shawn Taylor 27:29
Good question. As I had three hours of sleep last night, I’m like, that’s a really good question to ask. I should have been sleep last night. I think I’m almost like maniacally curious. And I think that curiosity falls on a spectrum, right? A one side curiosity, one side of the spectrum, you have curiosity with an attachment, like how something works, what does it mean, but then on the other far end of the spectrum, you have a curiosity of how kids are curious, because big things just to dig them for the experience without any expectation. I try to live in that moment more often than not. And I love to be curious, because I love to, I love to work with people as they get curious as well. Because if you are juiced about something, I’m going to be doubly juiced about it. So I’m watching you in the process. Plus, I’m learning something new. Like I’ve always been relentlessly curious as a kid. And I just think that it just I’ve been I’ve been 12 years old since I’ve been 12 years old. I mean, like that’s kind of like where my brains and we’re all like that was not like shiny, shiny utensil syndrome. Like I’m a kitten. But it’s always like, I will learn that my favorite people in the world are librarians I’ll call a library to ask for something you’ve had only been needed, just to hear the process of them working it out to find out what I’m talking about, like literally, because there’s something about putting things together. And then but not having it be the end wanting to get there but have any allegiance someplace else. I for me, like I said, I think it’s literally relentless curiosity.

Brian Crawford 29:00
How would you describe the the importance of curiosity in your life?

Shawn Taylor 29:05
Oh, I don’t think you can live without being curious. I don’t think you live a full enough life without being curious. I think that you have to have a wonder and an awe of all the things around you like there’s a comic book art author called Grant Morrison, and he was talking about like, imagine walking through the world and every single thing that you see has a secret to tell you. And like that’s how I walk through the Earth.

Brian Crawford 29:30
Love that

Shawn Taylor 29:32
Word. Can’t get bored.

Brian Crawford 29:33
Yeah. All right. Last bit. So the rapid fire part. What’s your favorite word?

Shawn Taylor 29:44
can’t curse can I?

Oh, that’s coming. Hold that thought

okay. The f-word is my favorite word. My literally my favorite word is connection

Brian Crawford 29:54
to be honest. Okay. What’s your least favorite word?

Shawn Taylor 29:58

Brian Crawford 30:01
What’s your personal nonprofit or cause passion?

Shawn Taylor 30:06
Making sure people know how dope they are.

Brian Crawford 30:09
What do you what? Nonprofit cause Do you think it’s too much attention?

Oh animals,

what’s your favorite curse word?

Shawn Taylor 30:20
Oh, fuck all day, every day.

Brian Crawford 30:23
So what profession other than your own? Would you like to attempt?

Shawn Taylor 30:27
Oh, chocolatier

Brian Crawford 30:29
Oh, wow, that’s cool. Okay. Okay. What other nonprofit professionals so person or organization would you like to talk to on this podcast?

Shawn Taylor 30:42
Oh, man, somebody with who works with like the oceans does an ocean conservation work.

Brian Crawford 30:49
Thanks for coming. Of course, whatever you need. I really appreciate it. Excellent. Thank you. Thanks. Bye. Take care yourself. Things again, the Shawn for making time to chat today. This is always so fantastic to talk to him. And thanks, everyone out there for listening, and we’ll see you next time.

Dawn Crawford 31:08
Thank you for listening. If you want to get all the new episodes sent to you as we release them, subscribe on your favorite podcast app. And until then, keep creating good

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